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  • #16
    Thanks--I have watched the video...as I said, I know how to hoop hats, did it all day for another machine..that single strap just isn't sufficient to hold a cap, in my opinion.

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    • #17
      As I said the cap frame has its way, plain and simple. If you don't hoop the cap correctly, if the design is too high, if the design is not too tall but being sewn too high on the cap, if you try to bend the bill back on the cap attemting to get a deeper bite on the hat band, if you don't use enough backing for the teeth to bite into, If the cap is not hooped tightly enough, if the cap driver is not installed correctly, if the cap driver designation selection is incorrect, should I go on?

      The trace function and it pushing the cap off of the frame can only lend one to think that some of the aforementioned items may be suspect. The sewing arm is riding against the inside crown of the cap and pushing it off of the teeth. If the bill of the cap is bent back and the hatband is forced more to the rear, you have just sealed your fate...failure, because when the cap bill is pushed back into the bill trap , it will lift the center of the cap and release the teeth in this area and the sewing arm on the trace will do the rest for you....

      You mentioned more than once, "I know how to hoop caps" that may be so with other cap frame/drivers, but not so with the XT Extended/WACF...I just spoke with Herb Acree and he told me he just completed 5 dozen caps....I would bet he did not even have one pushed off or fall off the frame. The frame does work, am I real fond of it, no, can I make it work without failure, yes, but do I have to follow strict procedure to make it work properly, absolutley...

      You have not given us any info to speak of...no backing size, design size, how close you are sewing to the bill or the crown of the cap, what cap, structured or unstructured or answers to any of the items listed above.....??????

      If you watched the video and did exactly as Herb is demonstrating, assuming that the machine is set up correctly and the design is not too tall, etc....you will be sucessful.

      Rod Springer
      Amaya Tech & Trainer
      Certified tech & trainer<br />208-898-4117

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      • #18
        You should be using backing, whether you think you need it or not.
        You must also make sure the sewing area on the cap is parallel to the floor (or needleplate).
        You must also make sure the "bill stop" is not pushing too hard against the bill.
        You must not sew too high in the cap. The sewing field on the machine is 3.5" but that may not be the sewing field on YOUR cap.

        Just some thoughts.

        But as Rod said, give us some more details.

        Ed
        -The Embroidery Authority-<br /><br />\"Turning your Problems into Production.\"<br />Ed Orantes<br />504-258-6260

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        • #19
          Once again...the more I hear about caps the less I want to do them...
          BTW anyone want my cap frames? never used. brand new. will trade.
          Jazmin from Mexico in San Antonio <br /><a href=\"http://www.PoshLittleThings.com\" target=\"_blank\">www.PoshLittleThings.com</a><br /> <a href=\"http://www.etsy.com/shop/poshlittlethings\" target=\"_blank\">http://www.etsy.com/shop/poshlittlethings</a>

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          • #20
            Ok, I'm not an expert by any means. But I also had a PR600 and never had a problem doing a hat, until we bought the XT. Of course, didn't try any until I had to do 3 dozen.... on a weekend.. (NO MELCO available.) I too was ready to throw the machine out the window. Came to this site and some wonderful person gave me a formula...(can't remember now..this was a few years ago) but I'm sure Rod or Ed or someone has it.

            I believe they told me to measure the hat...from the seam of the bill to the START of the curvature then subtract 1/2" (?) that becomes your AVAILABLE EMBROIDERY AREA. I then made sure the design was .25" smaller than that....and voila..sewed perfect.

            Can someone verify the formula?

            We ended up being so upset before we found this formula that I ended up buying 3 other double banded hoops because I thought the problem was the single band hoop. Now they just sit there and gather dust.
            Dan Sparks<br />DMS Imprints & Embroidery<br /><a href=\"http://www.DmsImprints.com\" target=\"_blank\">www.DmsImprints.com</a><br /><a href=\"http://www.PrintMeStore.com\" target=\"_blank\">www.PrintMeStore.com</a><br /> <a href=\"http://dmsimprints.logomall.com\" target=\"_blank\">http://dmsimprints.logomall.com</a>

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            • #21
              Dan,
              I guess you can go by your "formula". If that works for you, then more power to ya'.

              Personally, I can think of two ways to determine the maximum sewing height on a particular cap...

              1) Hoop the cap, place on machine, then hit the trace function. If the cap looks like the underside is getting hit by the leading edge of the needleplate during it's tracing, then you are sewing a design that is too tall. The cap should be able to all the way around the perimeter of the design with the cap sliding smoothly across the needleplate.

              OR..... You can do the more popular choice...

              2) Always make sure your cap designs don't exceed 2" in height. This way you know it really won't matter what style cap you'll choose to sew because you will know in advance that the design should fit. If you choose to make it a little larger (say 2.25") because you believe it will fit the cap you're working with, then let that be your choice and not the customer's.
              Besides, if you go any larger than this, personally, I think the design is going to look a little silly on the front of a cap because it will look too large. Again, my personal opinion and each cap/design combo will vary.

              Most popular caps today don't have the high profile front (like in the old days) so the real estate you'll have to sew on will be limited.

              Ed
              -The Embroidery Authority-<br /><br />\"Turning your Problems into Production.\"<br />Ed Orantes<br />504-258-6260

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              • #22
                I guess the point I was trying to make was you can't go with a magic number (2") if the curvature starts before that.

                When we are new and they tell you this has the largest sewing field of any machine out there, at least we were stupid enough to design it there.

                Not realizing that some hats don't have a 2" flat spot.

                Since my daughter found out the formula we have never had any problems.

                Just thought I would add my 2cents from a former NEWBIE asking the right questions can get you great answers, it's just sometimes you don't know the right questions to ask.
                Dan Sparks<br />DMS Imprints & Embroidery<br /><a href=\"http://www.DmsImprints.com\" target=\"_blank\">www.DmsImprints.com</a><br /><a href=\"http://www.PrintMeStore.com\" target=\"_blank\">www.PrintMeStore.com</a><br /> <a href=\"http://dmsimprints.logomall.com\" target=\"_blank\">http://dmsimprints.logomall.com</a>

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                • #23
                  WOW--I LOVE all these answers. Might I throw one other thing into the mix, since I posted the original problem (for yesterday, anyway). I had successfully done one hat--the second was the problem. Both hats were flex fit hats--but the second was an adult SMALL with the first being a LARGE. Might that also be a consideration? Feel free to say no...

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                  • #24
                    An adult small may have too small of a sewing field.

                    try reducing the size of your design by 10% and see if your OK. with a trace.

                    You may be up to the limit with your first one, and using a smaller hat it may have just pushed you over the edge.
                    [email protected]
                    Jerome in Minnesota
                    (320)259-1151

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                    • #25
                      And Now For The Rest of The Story, as Paul Harvey use to say....

                      Now you have given some info....Flex Fits, the cap band is elastic and stretches. These are some of the more difficult caps to deal with and the cap band , because of the way it is sewn into the cap, isn't as wide and great care has to be exercised in getting the cap hooped as tightly as possible by ironing out the face of the cap as Herb demonstrates in the video. There is a great temptation to bend that bill back and try to expose more of the capband, trying to get a deeper bite on the band with the frame teeth but you will quickly get past the DMZ and into the battle zone by doing so.

                      Sometimes, two layers of backing helps, sometimes and I am biting my tongue to say this, but a bit of sticky spray between the backing and the elastic band can help with the problem. Most of the ladies don't have the strength in their hands to hoop some of these caps tight enough and every little trick may help....

                      Flex fits....I don't like to embroidery on them, I can do it with the WACF style, but usually I will revert back to the old Melco CCF/WAD frame to do these.
                      Certified tech & trainer<br />208-898-4117

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                      • #26
                        I also do Flex-Fit caps and use the WACF on a Big Red. These caps have a slight bulge in the center front that is very difficult to get flat. If you concentrate on this area, (I use folded extra backing behind it) and get it rubbed down tight, they sew well.
                        Good luck
                        Creating the best First Impressions with custom embroidery.<br /><br />Jo Leftwich<br /> <a href=\"http://www.justsewitllc.com\" target=\"_blank\">http://www.justsewitllc.com</a>

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                        • #27
                          Currently in our shop it seems to be hat season (that and horse blankets but that's a whole different area). We had Big Red and now have the XT. We have never had a cap come off, actually I like the single strap better than the previous version. The one thing I do, and I know not everyone will have it available to them is I use the hat heat press on all caps before I sew. It helps to relax the front, especially the seam. No trouble with flex fit hats, just did 1 doz of them last week. I agree with Rod and Ed, you must hoop them tight and use backing, also we insist with our customers on the height of the design not to exceed 2", we can usually work with them and give them what they are looking for.

                          Linda
                          R&J Screenprinting & Embroidery
                          West Branch MI

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                          • #28
                            We had trouble with the WACF cap frames untill I bent the the little brace that holds the cap out so it was 5/16 in from the teeth. We have no more problems hooping them. After doing one to see how it worked I did all 8 of them. Took awhile as had to do it in a vice, bending it with a hammer, putting it back on to measure then maybe do it again till it was exact. You have to be sure the part that holds the bill isn't bent back or it will hit on the machine. Bill @ Fineline in Manhattan, IL PS, Looking for a Tech in our area.

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                            • #29
                              It finally got so bad at work, I finally broke down and became determined to be a "can-do the almost impossible kinda fella" & find a way to do any of our designs on the front of a cap. That being said, with the pressure from above in the red zone, I decided to return to the sole CCF for the WAD that I bought just "to see" if it was for me. Viola- salvation! Abandoning all old ideas & voiding past rules & such, I decided to try to see through somewhat ignorant eyes- like I knew very little about embroidery. But, I am pretty good at navigating in DS & OS. The problem I had with this hoop in the past was that the machine (software) would not allow me to sew close enough to the brim for satisfactory results. This is where it gets kinda weird- I just happened to remember tools&gt;hoop manager&gt;hoop setup (or something close to that sequence)- went in & built my own hoop. Just put in the parameters, and you have "redefined" the hoop & it's limits. Be very, very careful if you try this. But, in a nutshell, what I did was enlarge the y-axis sewfield so I could sew closer to the brim & keep those darn bars out of my cap! Name & save your new frame & remember- be careful. If you are not sure about this (a newbie, etc.), don't go here- learn more &/or talk to your tech. Always stay in touch with your tech. Good luck- I can sew designs that looked like a smeared mess before with ease. I use one piece of 3 oz. backing & 2 pieces of double-faced carpet tape to hold the backing in place (works over & over again, too) & hoop it very snug, just not TIGHT. Worked like a charm on 22 caps for me today, and keep in mind these designs were just flipped & modified "on the fly"- not made for caps. Sewed perfectly every time, at least for today. Whew!
                              Gregory

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                              • #30
                                Still went well yesterday. I can't believe I didn't think of this before. Had to bump up the pull comp (col) a good bit on two designs, but all the caps fell into the acceptable category. I say acceptable because some of these designs look stupid on anything, much less a cap- but give em what they ask for. Anyway, I went ahead & ordered 3 more of the CCFs- that way I can put 2 machines on caps & get them out of the way instead of dreading every one. Hope everybody has a great 4th.
                                Gregory

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