Top Thread Feed Tension

[Guest]

What is the setting in Thread Feed that I would use to slow down the amount of thread being fed from the top? I'm drawing a blank and hope someone can fill it in ...

GF

[Rod or Sharon]

GF,

"Slow down from the top??" Material thickness can reduce the amount of thread being fed either in auto activ-feed or standard acti-feed. Using the "Auto Lower Limit" settings, with auto activ-feed, will allow you to regulate how low or how high you want the auto acti-feed feature to go which relates to material thickness.

Run/fill speed allows you to add or decrease thread to the individual stitch without changing the actual stitch length.

Column feed deals with the width of the bobbin column on the back side of the embroidery.

Machine speed can slow it down, but I don't think that is the answer you are looking for----

Rod Springer
Amaya Tech and Trainer

[GF]

Hi Rod ... I need to figure out better how the Auto Lower Limit and Auto Actifeed settings work together. While I could just go Standard ... having the Amaya pick up the small adjustments with each column or fill is what makes the Amayas superior. Understanding how these settings work together is really important. So... how does the Auto Lower Limit settings work and, of course, speed is an important variable ... the faster it goes, the more thread should be fed ... assuming we're at 2500 spm, what is a good setting for the thread to "lay" on the fabric. The default settings are way off --- too tight.

[Rod or Sharon]

GF,

I am going to assume that you meant 1500spm and not 2500spm as the machines cannot run that fast anyway....

Auto acti-feed is basically an automatic material thickness function. It works off of the threadbreak sensor bar/tube (the little chrome tube that is located horizonally across the front of the needle case).

Before getting into the auto acti-feed function, "tight" as far as the design sewout, may be in the digitizing, not the machine settings. Density, stitch length, column width, all play a part in a bullet proof design.

But, auto acti-feed and auto lower limits. Before auto acti-feed came on the scene and all we had was the "Standard" acti-feed, the "Settings by Color" tool was a way of programming each needle to preform a specified function. For instance, different material thickness and machine speed settings could be could be assigned to each needle/color in a given design. This still is a very handy tool to learn how to use and has several functions other than just the two I mentioned.

I do not run my machines at 1500 spm. At the factory the machines go through all their testing a 1200spm. Sure they can run at 1500, but speed can cause a multitude of other problems and usually does.

Back to auto acti-feed. Lets use a cap with a heavy center seam as an example. when we set the auto lower limit to around 7 or 8, this now regulates the material thickness to "never" go below that figure. This is very handy on caps. Before auto activ-feed, a rule of thumb was to set the Standard at 12 for material thickness and sew. This sometimes was not enough to keep the thread from still being too tight on the center seam, but was plenty loose enough on the left and right side of the center seam areas, sometimes too loose. Using the lower limit basically gives the auto acti-feed a head start on that thick seam but will regulate material thickness on both sides of it as well to never go below your specified command. I watch the auto acti-feed on caps go as high as 18 to 22 across the center seam and back to the auto lower limit setting I selected. If the auto lower limit was not set, the machine would still sew the center seam the same but may sew the sides areas at 1 or 2 which is too tight. Remember we are using a cap as an example. They sew differently than caps because of the rotation of the cap driver. If your selected number for lower limit gets too high, loose loopy embroidery and false thread/bobbin breaks will be present. You have to remember to lower your auto lower limit setting when going back to flats from caps. It does not default back automatically on it's own.

For the most part, the default setting of 1 for auto activ-feed works well, maybe 2 on some machines for flat work.

But learn how to use the Column feed and the Run/fill speed I mentioned before to help regulate the amount of thread that is being fed to the different elements in a design. Settings by Color can be a great help also.

Hope this helps....

Rod Springer
Amaya Tech & Trainer

[GF]

That would be 1250 ... seems to be a speed that works best for me.

[Pro Image]

I too get a lot of false bobbin breaks as well. My problem is that if I lower my actifeed lower minimum limits my design tends pucker more than I like, it does seem to eliminate the false bobbin breaks however.
I have tried to help with the hooping by using the new 'Mighty Hoops' which if nothing else seems to give a more constant hooping tension on the material. I sew a lot of the thinner polos and puckering is certainly easier to occur than on more stable fabrics. I have used underlay to try to lay the foundation that will attach the backing to the fabric and most of the time the puckering seems to be greater on satin columns and the ends of the fill areas when they go down to a small point. To minimize that pull I try to lay down a edge stitch underlay close to the edge. I typically use a 2.5 ounce cut away linning. I check my bobbin case tension for the 1 to 2 inch drop test at every bobbin change.
I have had it suggested to me to help with this puckering is to reduce the density of the columns and then increase the actifeed lower limit to a higher number. This seems to help with the puckering but increases the False Bobbin breaks - which is very frustrating.
The $64 question is: Is there a setting that will be better to allow a flatter, less tight stitch which has minimal puckering and not cause excessive false bobbin breaks? Is this the run feed setting/column? Mine is set at Column feed 60, run feed 100.

[GF]

Hi Mark, I completely understand this because I experience the same thing and have found that tweaking these adjustments does make a difference in a sewout. I don't always like decreasing the density of a well digitized design because it takes away good coverage and I don't believe that is the best answer. I typically start with 50 > 101 and lower limit of 4 or 5 with the presser foot up one click or all the way down. If I experience false bobbin breaks, I'll loosen the bobbin tension to about 28 (Towa bobbin case tension gauge) and/or raise the presser foot up or down a click. 60 seems high to me, but I think keeping it around 45 to 50 produces the best result, and the lower setting of 4 to even 8 or 9 (caps) will give you better results. From what I understand, the Amaya will automatically adjust as it sews, so we're really just setting a baseline number. I will find that I get false bobbin breaks when my lower limit is set to say 4 or 5, and I get a color change which the auto actifeed drops to 3, so when it starts with the next color, it gives me a false bobbin break. Not sure why, when the autofeed lower limit is set to 4, that it can drop lower than 4 in auto while sewing. I love the autofeed abilities of the amayas, but I think the software could improve its communication to the machine. The defaults that Melco sets are way to tight in my opinion and realized this at my first sewout. Every item requires some adjustment and one setting will never be exact for any type of design/fabric (one size doesn't fit all). I think Thread Feed is the most important dialog box in the software program and not addressed enough in training or support. Just practice ... practice ... and keep notes for specific fabric and design combinations for future reference.

GF

[signman]

Best thing I found for puckering is using the mesh backing along with 1.5 oz. tearaway...and you DO need to play with density of the lettering. Turn OFF short stitch control for all lettering below .25 inch, try the mesh, and see what happens. Your lettering should be 5.5 or higher, not lower...it sounds counterproductive but if you try to cram too many stitches in one spot you get the puckering and the 'holes' on the corners.

[GF]

One other thing ... I have two Amayas and each one works differently. So while one setting may work well on Thing1, those same settings for the same job setup will be off a number for Thing2 or the other way around. It's all tension related and cables, bobbins, speed all play a factor in that (just my opinion). I would love to hear a tech's perspective on this though.

[Pro Image]

Thanks for the reply. I wish there was an easy answer too. It seems that if the settings are set to eliminate false bobbin breaks there is a decrease in quality sewouts (especially on thin fabrics), quality sewouts which I believe should be the most important issue because if it is not quality then repeat business will not occur of course having to conatantly press the green start button is frustrating.
I have in times past turned off the bobbin detection setting, but this too is very frustrating after the machine will finally break and you are faced with having to pick out and then travel back in the design.
If Melco would like to increase sales, with the performance type fabrics on the market if they could educate us or make these adjustments it would be a very good selling point to the AMAYA machine. It seems logical to me that thread at the needle needs to be loose rather than tight so to increase the feed seems to be the thing to do - is that to be accomplished by increasing the lower limit or increasing the column feed or both?
I have been told before that with the AMAYA the 1/3 top on the left and right and 1/3 bobbin on the underside is not necessarily going to happen. How then or what is the proper appearance to be?
Mark

[cbireley]

Thank you all for this information...I, too, struggle with the same kinds of things. I've had my Amaya 4 years and feel like I'm still in the baby stages of learning. I get so overwhelmed when I realize I know so little....

[GF]

I very much agree Mark. While I have had very positive experiences with Melco, I agree this area is being sorely neglected. The hardware techs are fantastic! While every software tech I have spoken to is pleasant and usually knowledgeable, my experience has been they generally are still figuring out the software which, in my opinion, if programmed and supported better would increase their sales and present customer loyalty overall. Having been in IT previous to this, enduser support and staying contemporary to software programming is crucial to the success of any company who bases their sales on hardware and software. There is just no reason why any computer program should look like Windows 95 in the year 2010! Many companies are struggling with this ... not just Melco. I love my machines and I don't regret the purchase and hope that Melco can find ways to rewrite their programming and improve end user support which will allow them to regain a superior equipment slot in this industry. They certainly hold a strong patent on the autofeed component of their machines, but they really need comparable software to communicate to it. In the meantime, what I do is practice, maintain machines, support Melco by investing in their maintenance plans, and hope that helps.

[Pro Image]

How is the best way to adjust the settings to minimize puckering yet minimize false bobbin breaks?
Column feed or increasing the Acti Feed thickness setting?
Mark

[The Embroidery Authority - OLD]

All,
Let's acknowledge that there are two directions the thread can move that can cause the puckering effect.
1) If the fabric is allowed to pull together under the tension of the stitches. This is prevented by using proper backing as well as appropriate underlay stitches.
2) If the density/stitch count is too much for a particular part of the fabric, the fabric will "push" in an outward direction causing what appears to be a puckering effect. This is prevented by proper digitizing.

Lest we not forget that a damaged needle point can also damage the fibers of the fabric which can disrupt the way those fibers lie. Kind of like what happens when you get a "run" in a sweater.

Ed Orantes

[Pro Image]

I agree with your points and realize that there are multiple factors that can cause puckering. This issue seems to be like the comment problem of the hardware says its the software and the software vendor says it's the hardware.
Improper digitizing is probably chief, however I would like to understand better the effects of the tools that our hardware/software perhaps can play to help with the problem. It not always desirable to utilize a relative very heavy backing on a thin piece of the performance type fabrics that are out there today. I realize that one option is not to sew on it and the other is to print on it. I realize that for some materials those are the only option.
My question is what adjustments affect the feed of the thread that would apply thread looser but doesn't cause the constant false bobbin breaks, which I know I can turn off in the software.
I would like to know the effects/differences in minimum lower number and column feed. Do you adjust only one or both? The default column feed is 40. I also know that bobbin tension plays a part what recommendations for tension on the bobbin?
Thanks
Mark